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ICQ Chat Save file 
Started on Sun Aug 09 21:58:15 1998

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<Emperor Claudio I> hello Harold...
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> Back again. We were talking about the two Porto Claros. Does anyone other than Reunion recognize the Kingdom?
<Emperor Claudio I> I was saying:
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> can't deny they EXIST (unfortunately) but YES, I can deny they are PORTO CLARO.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> Merovingia, I think. But that is not my concern. I believe in fairness, not in "doing what other people are doing".
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> I'd do it alone. I do what is right, not what other people think I should do.
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> My concern with fairness is that the people of Porto Claro voted for a Republic.
<Harold> 
<Filipe> Everything is ok, now, right?
<Filipe> 
<Emperor Claudio I> I see Filipe and Harold.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> I am sorry that they "stole" Pedro's symbols, etc., but I do not think one person can have proprietary rights to a nation once they give up personal control.
<Harold> 
<Harold> Filipe, everything is working fine.
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> no they did not. that was NOT what happened. They did that after the "revolution" headed by aguiar.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> The thing is: The micronation "Rep. of Porto Claro" was created in February, while the Kingdom in 1992.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> I'm listening to you two now...
<Emperor Claudio I> Easy to know: who founded the nation? Tell me, To whom does the COPYRIGHT of name, symbols, etc belong? 
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> indeed. that's true. And Pedro admits that.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> Then, was the referendum that created the Republic conducted fairly, and the result reflect the will of the Portoclarian people?
<Emperor Claudio I> I will never stick by people who Steal, Lie and conspire, that's just not "me".
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Filipe> Claudio, don't you agree that Pedro give up his personal control of Porto Claro, in 97, when he agreed with the "revolution" made by Jean? 
<Harold> 
<Harold> I understand, Claudio. The question in my mind was, who lied and who conspired? I'm not sure in my own mind it was the Republic, no matter how disagreeable their diplomacy is.
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> Not accurate, Filipe; he left when he realized all he had built, everything he fought for was about to end, because of a group of copyright-breakers and other people interested in using what was invented by HIS MIND to get publicity and newspapers, et al.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Filipe> I agree with that, Jean. Pedro goes out when he realize the republic will win.
<Filipe> 
<Harold> No one forced Pedro out of the Republic, did they? I mean, Pedro could have stayed in to get it back, no?
<Harold> 
<Harold> And the Diario Portoclarense was his, and was a major institution there.
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> Not after they started conspiring against him and turning the people against him. A lie repeated 1000 times becomes truth.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> The problem is, if Pedro had money or time, he'd crush them like a cockroach.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Filipe> But Pedro could stay there and win the next elections or something, but he always prefer to fight.
<Filipe> 
<Harold> The problem is, Pedro does not know how to compromise with other people to get some of what they want for some of what he wants. He left himself no "political capital" to fight later.
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> To err is human, errare humanum est....
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Emperor Claudio I> Not ptoprietary rights to a NATION, but to all the texts and symbols he created, YES, at least under brazilian law.
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> I agree, and it is not I who is judging Pedro for what he did. History delivered the judgment when Pedro left his own country. 
<Harold> 
<Emperor Claudio I> Why didn't they start the "Republic of HSFGHSF", instead of stealing the name?
<Filipe> Oh, but Pedro knows that he has a part of guilty there....if he doesn't support the Green Party in november, against us, he didn't had this problems.
<Filipe> 
<Emperor Claudio I> 
<Harold> Why should they? They were the people of Porto Claro, under the Constitution of Porto Claro, conducting a free election in Porto Claro. 
<Harold> 
<Filipe> That's right, Jean. I agree. The problem is that Pedro creates a monarchy country, under some laws and with some kind of stuff. And he saw that all he created was changing
<Filipe> 
<Harold> As Filipe is writing, it is a horrible thing to happen to anyone. And on a personal level, as I said before, it would have to hurt terribly! I would have hated to have seen Lafayette turn into say, a Nazi state.
<Harold> 
<Harold> Well, fine. You don't have to deal with them if you don't want to. That's your decision as Reunion.
<Harold> 
<Filipe> That's what I said to him yesterday, Claudio. They have some rights, but they're not the kind of people I wanna be like a friend. I know them so well.
<Filipe> 
<Harold> But let us separate the issues: The question is not, do I like the Republic of Porto Claro? The question is, is the Republic the legitimate government of Porto Claro? And I argue that it is, that the circumstances of Pedro's actions means that he, not the Republic, however sadly for Pedro, should change the name of his country.
<Harold> 
<Filipe> 
<Filipe> I can't imagine a situation when I agree that the republic is the unlegitimate country. I could only admit that there are two micronations with the same name, under contest.
<Filipe> 
<Harold> I can accept that. But it causes problems, considering that one of the unresolved issues for us is how to end the conflict with Porto Claro. I'm suggesting that, because the Republic is, as you have admitted, the legitimate government of Porto Claro (and I think most of the micronational world would agree with that), that we need to deal with them (however distasteful that might be). On the other hand, however, I do not want to kiss their ****.
<Harold> 
<Filipe> Claudio, do you know the situation of the Kingdom in LOSS, don't you?
<Filipe> 
<Filipe> I can accept that. But it causes problems, considering that one of the unresolved issues for us is how to end the conflict with Porto Claro. I'm suggesting that, because the Republic is, as you have admitted, the legitimate government of Porto Claro (and I think most of the micronational world would agree with that), that we need to deal with them (however distasteful that might be). On the other hand, however, I do not want to kiss their ****.
<Filipe> 
<Filipe> Jean said it before, Claudio. 
<Filipe> 
<Filipe> Ok, Jean. Tell me what you think about the idea
<Filipe> 
<Harold> Filipe, it is 20 hr here, and I get up very early in the morning (0545), so I need to get off. I think we need to think more about the proposal with Reunion, and especially, whether we need more time to get our own government established. I really think we would be much more active if our Constitution was up and running...
<Harold> 
<Filipe> As I said, I won't go ahead without you. Let's talk about it again in other ocasion.
<Filipe> 
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The Tisserand Museum
October, 2000